Moderadores: Alan78, Tropic, Operadores, Moderadores
Entre 40 y 46mm de palomilla (según el año), buen calibre para un 2-litros 4-pucheros @ 6000+ rpm.kandhu escribió:De momento cuento con unos TB de GSXR 750 ...
En las inmortales palabras de los catedráticos de mostrador de repuestos:... si alguien le sobra un colector de admision q me avise, que le mando un corte rapidamente.
Yep.kandhu escribió:Es para mi cali turbo, pero creo q el colector del c20xe me vale, no?
Psché pschá. Como mínimo tendrás que apañar el TPS standard C20XE/C20LET al eje de palomillas de los ITBs. Y luego a ver que tal se entiende empíricamente la M2.7 con la particular idiosincrasia de los ITBs ...No se si me equivoco, pero en mi caso no me preocupa la centralita, pues el kklimetro se queda en su sitio, por lo q la motronic debería cumplir su mision.
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Barato y rápido!! Mi padre me dice: ¿que e eso?... esto es de una moto, se lo quiero poner al coche junto al boton de "superpursuit" 
.... 
"estas tolo estas tolo" 
Efesteviewonder. La cuita con ITBs es que poca apertura de 4 palomillas equivale a mucha apertura de 1 (o 1 y media) sola.kandhu escribió:Lo q me preocupa es que, en el caso del TB de origen, veo q únicamente es la mariposa pequeña la q se abre en los primeros (mas o menos) 25º, permaneciendo la grande cerrada.
Estos 25º de apertura en los ITB´S se traducen en mayor caudal de aire, puesto que tenemos 4 mariposas de mayor diametro. Aqui se acaba un tacto de acelerador "civilizado", menos control a punta de gas...Los parametros de la ECU fuera de si, venga, a resetear y comprobar q la Bosch es capaz de aprender algo nuevo.
¿Hasta que punto y de que forma se vería afectada la mezcla estequeometrica?
Throttle body Questions and Answers
NOTE: It is assumed that the advanced engine developer will have access to the usual experience / software / dyno time. The advise on this page is not intended to replace these.
Which type of throttle body?
Twin bodies are the most straightforward solution for production engines, Direct-to-head where available, or via a suitable manifold.
Direct-to-head-bodies represent the simplest and neatest solution. They are harder to match to the inlet ports if this is required for the engine in question, but have the advantage of being angled for best results, unlike a carburettor manifold.
Single bodies represent the no-compromise solution, particularly for competition use. The seperate manifold is easily matched to the inlet ports and the best mixture path is guaranteed. They are also available in fully-tapered bore and twin injector types. Mounting, balance and maintenance are naturally more involved.
What is the best throttle body diameter?
Factors influencing size are; Power output, RPM, cylinder head design, cylinder capacity, position of the throttle body in the inlet tract and position of the injector.
Choice of bore size is a balanced compromise resulting from the following;
1) A larger bore leads to lower flow resistance, but obeying the laws of diminishing returns.
2) A smaller bore leads to better throttle control and response (never underestimate) and improved fuel mixing.
3) The system should be considered in total - from (at least) trumpet flange to cylinder and proportioned accordingly.
Basic references for BHP per cylinder, assuming ca 120mm from butterfly to valve head and a max of 9,000 rpm are;
Up to 30 - 30mm, up to 33 - 32mm, up to 39 - 35mm, up to 46 - 38mm, up to 51 - 40mm, up to 56 - 42mm
Up to 65 - 45mm, up to 74 - 48mm, up to 80 - 50mm, up to 87 - 52mm, up to 93 - 54mm.
These power figures may be increased by up to 10% in a purpose - designed and well proportioned system.
As butterfly to valve distance increases, butterfly size will need to increase in proportion to system taper and vice versa.
Lower revving engines and those with injectors placed before the butterfly will generally accept a larger body.
What is the correct overall system length?
Induction length is one of the most important aspects of fuelling performance engines.
In our experience an under-length system is the greatest cause of disapointment, with loss of up to 1/3 of power potential. There are a number of good books on the subject and the serious developer is referred to these and, in particular, dyno trials. A guide figure, from the face of the trumpet to the centre of the valve head is 350mm for a 9,000 RPM engine. Other RPM are proportional, i.e. for 18,000 RPM the figure is ca 175mm.
Any air feed system to an airbox or filter can have a large effect on the power curve and must be considered carefully - particularly if the airbox is small.
The induction system is part of a resonant whole - from air inlet or trumpet to exhaust outlet - and the ideal length is heavily influenced by the other components.
What is the best position for the butterfly?
The butterfly is an important aid to fuel mixing. When positioned too close to the valve this advantage will be lost whilst positioning far away may lead to a loss of response.
As with the injector position (see below), higher RPM demands a larger butterfly to valve distance. A practical minimum figure for a 7 - 9,000 RPM engine is 200mm, whilst the maximum is dictated by the need to fit an air horn of reasonable length to achieve a good overall tract shape. One solution to this apparent compromise is the use of bodies with fully-tapered bores which, in effect, extend the trumpet distance beyond the butterfly and into the manifold. For very high speeds above approximately 15,000 RPM, the ideal butterfly position is only just inside, or even outside the trumpet and a point is reached where a taper is no longer sufficient for good tract shape. For these circumstances we can supply bodies with the exponential trumpet shape machined into them as a special service, or barrel bodies which, by their nature, must be purpose-designed in conjunction with the cylinder head.
Where is the best place for the injectors?
Where one injector is to be used per cylinder the best compromise position is immediately downstream of the butterfly. This gains maximum advantage from local turbulence and gives results surprisingly close to the optimum at both ends of the rev-range. This is the recommended position for most applications
For performance at low RPM, economy and low emissions the injector needs to be close to the valve and firing at the back of the valve head. This is the favoured position for production vehicles.
For higher RPM (very approximately 8,000+) the injector needs to be near the intake end of the induction tract to give adequate mixing time and opportunity. The higher the RPM, the further upstream the injector needs to be. As a result, use of speeds above approximately 11,000 RPM may give best results with the injector mounted outside the inlet tract altogether (see our remote injector mounting). It is common to fit both lower and upper injectors in such a system to cover starting and low RPM as well as high speeds.
What is required for a complete fuel injection system?
Besides throttle bodies, linkage and manifold (if required) typical components are; A management system, wiring loom, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, fuel injectors, appropriate plumbing, air horns and a ducting/filtration system for the incoming air.
What type of injector?
Dimensions: All Jenvey injector mountings and fuel rails will accept either the standard 'O' ring mounted injectors for 14mm bores as supplied by Bosch, Weber, Lucas, etc (64mm between 'O' ring centres) or the shorter 'Pico' style injectors (38mm between 'O' ring centres).
There are a number of other injector types, using the same 'O' rings but with different lengths. These can be used on our twin throttle bodies with ease, but may require different fuel rail mountings on individual bodies. Please specify which you are using when ordering throttle bodies and fuel rails.
Flow-rate:When fitting our throttle bodies to an otherwise standard engine bear in mind that increased power means increased fuel demand and the original equipment injectors are therefore usually inadequate.
What manifold to use?
When injecting into the throttle body (e.g. our types TB, TH, TF, TA, Direct-to-head and SF, SS or ST//1), most of the mixing occurs within the manifold section. It is therefore important that the manifold is suitably proportioned to evenly accelerate gas speed and thus help fuel mixing and distribution. The straighter the run in to the ports the better. A manifold which curves in the same direction as the valve throats is preferred to one which causes the flow to pass through an "S" bend.
What throttle potentiometers will fit Jenvey bodies?
We use relatively popular mechanical interfaces for the throttle potentiometer. See the layout drawing for dimension details. Popular types are; Colvern CP17 series (as supplied by Jenvey), Wabash 971-0002 and (via fitting kits) throttle pots from Novotechnik, Penny & Giles, Marelli and Weber. A number of production car throttle pots (e.g. Rover K series) will also fit directly to the bodies.
The Colvern CP17 throttle potentiometer may be mounted to either end of most installations and spindle rotation is typically 82 degrees.
Can Jenvey bodies be pressure charged?
Jenvey bodies can generally be used with boosts up to 6 bar, although we recommend that you contact our technical department if boost of more than 2.5 bar or temperatures above 150ºC are expected since some models require special treatment for high pressures and/or temperatures.
Can Jenvey bodies be connected to an Air Bypass valve?
Components and complete kits are available to connect the output from an ABV to throttle bodies. More information is available on a specific instruction sheet.
What is the best Air horn ( / Trumpet / Stack / Bellmouth )?
The air horn serves three main purposes; 1) To convert the pressure difference between bore and entrance into air velocity with the minimum of energy loss. 2) To act as the interface between the induction system and the atmosphere, i.e. the point at which pressure waves change sign and direction. 3) To complete the system to the required overall length.
For ease of description the air horn may be considered in two parts; the 'flare' and the 'tube';
The main job of the flare is to spread the low pressure zone over the largest possible area - to reduce local pressure reduction - whilst guiding incoming air into the tube with minimum disruption or induced vortices. The flare should be shaped to encourage air to enter from the sides, but not from the rear, of the mouth. This is achieved by either finishing the mouth with a sharp edge when the arc is a little beyond 90 degrees from the air horn axis or by folding material back, parallel to the axis, when the arc is at, or just below, 90 degrees to the axis.
The main job of the tube is to accelerate the airflow smoothly and progressively. This is best achieved by an exponential shape - i.e. one where the radius of curvature is increasing constantly until the angle of the sides matches the next part of the system, usually the throttle body. At the intake end this should blend smoothly with the flare.
It should be noted that the requirements for fuel injection and carburation do not always coincide and the best horns for one may not suit the other.
Why are Jenvey induction systems the best?
See Why Jenvey?.
Barrel or Butterfly? Big single body? Sep 08
he visto a buen precio:TELVM escribió:Entre 40 y 46mm de palomilla (según el año), buen calibre para un 2-litros 4-pucheros @ 6000+ rpm.kandhu escribió:De momento cuento con unos TB de GSXR 750 ...
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¿Mas barato que 39 dolares?miguelobregon escribió:he visto a buen precio:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GSXR-Thr ... ccessories
aunque me pregunto si no seria mas barato fabricarlos artesanalmente...
¿Que coño haces que no lo has comprado ya?Claro, y un motor tambien son cuatro cachos de tubo con cuatro latunes subiendo y bajando dentro con 4 varillasmiguelobregon escribió: son 4 trozos de tubo, una varilla o eje y 4 circunferencias, mucho lio no parece
El bello arte del plug&play...miguelobregon escribió:y una duda, el tema del TPS de serie, va bien con el o no?
¿Que mas da si tienes 90º de giro igualmente? Adaptar el de serie si que es una chorrada que se puede atacar mediante DIY.
NeWbIe_SLMNK escribió:¿Mas barato que 39 dolares?miguelobregon escribió:he visto a buen precio:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GSXR-Thr ... ccessories
aunque me pregunto si no seria mas barato fabricarlos artesanalmente...
Los 61$ de gastos de envio tambien estan tirados de precio si si...xuanxo02 escribió:NeWbIe_SLMNK escribió:¿Mas barato que 39 dolares?miguelobregon escribió:he visto a buen precio:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GSXR-Thr ... ccessories
aunque me pregunto si no seria mas barato fabricarlos artesanalmente...
este tio es un cachondo
si andara buscando unos ya te los habria quitado
39$ de los bichos mas 61$ del envio hacen 100$ que vienen siendo unos 75€ puestos en casa si no hay lio con aduanas (send as a gift)spewi escribió:Los 61$ de gastos de envio tambien estan tirados de precio si si...
Leete con calma el hilo hombre! Que esta bien claro de que estamos hablando:christian escribió:telvm e eleido que valdrian las piezas de una moto como suzuki y r6 yo tengo el motor de una r6 el que se puede aprobechar los carburadores o las tomas o el que un saludo
El resto es buscarte la vida y adaptar colectores. (o colectores y Megasquirt si no quieres montar unos descafeinados y castrarlos con el kakalimetro de kompuerta)Up to 30 - 30mm, up to 33 - 32mm, up to 39 - 35mm, up to 46 - 38mm, up to 51 - 40mm, up to 56 - 42mm
Up to 65 - 45mm, up to 74 - 48mm, up to 80 - 50mm, up to 87 - 52mm, up to 93 - 54mm.
Si son carburadores da igual, con 4 retoques caseros les quitas los surtidores y todo aquello que asome por la zona en que el aire ha de correr libremente y fuera!christian escribió:pues lo que tengo yo de la moto no se parece en nada claro yo tengo carburadores
Pues Dbilas es una empresa que fabrica piezas para potenciacion para nuestros motores, que son montar y punto, decia que si no tienes ganas de currartelo tu mismo y te sobran 1540€ ellos te envian 4 aceleradores listos para montar en un C20NEchristian escribió:y que dices que ai alguien que te lo consigue
Como norma general:christian escribió:y de cuantos caballos estamos ablando si no te importa
